Differentiated Understanding
AI Proem Podcast
AI, tech, and business — across borders. Every episode, Grace brings in a guest with a unique point of view on a critical matter, phenomenon, or business trend — someone who can help us see things differently.
Episodes
Latest conversations
- Ep. 45How the Creative Industry is Adopting AI with Miora, Tencent’s Creative Agentcreative AI, creative agent, vertical application, agent battle, memory and harnessSep 30, 2026
38 min - Ep. 44Trump-Xi Meeting, China’s Four-Pronged AI Strategy, Path to US-China AI Cooperation with Kristy LokeAI governance, AI safety, Trump-Xi summit, China’s AI governance approachSep 28, 2026
43 min - Ep. 43How AI Is Actually Changing Product and Designinsider look into how silicon valley is actually using AI, beyond benchmarks and technicals, AI as product, AI in design andSep 23, 2026
52 min - Ep. 42Former DeepMind Eng turned Founder: Computer Agents and Token Economics with Simular AI Ang LiCUAs, token consumption, SaaS moats, future of workSep 17, 2026
58 min - Ep. 41DeepSeek’s fundraising, unique A-share features, and what’s ahead with The InformationA-share, venture capital, DeepSeek, robotics, unitree, world models, what’s next?Sep 9, 2026
1 hr 7 min - Ep. 40A closer look at the economics of the Chinese labs with Bernstein’s Robin Zhuiteration, innovation, compute efficiency and the qualities that matter beyond today’s models.Sep 1, 2026
1 hr 10 min - Ep. 39From 3D Design Software to Spatial Intelligence: Manycore’s Next Chapterspatial intelligence, physical ai, 3D data, manycore, hangzhou six dragon, hong kong IPO, China AIAug 26, 2026
52 min - Ep. 38China’s pragmatism, state-market hybrid, and how that shapes AI and capital with Baiguan’s Robert WuChina AI, capital markets, Hong Kong IPOs, state capitalism, AI data, alternative data, pragmatism and non-religious attitudeAug 19, 2026
1 hr 0 min - Ep. 37Qoder joins again to talk about China's workplace agent war. Redirected focus on EMEA & APACAlibaba and the big techs battle it out, workplace agent vs coding agent, SEA and EU top priorities, shift away from the US marketAug 11, 2026
37 min - Ep. 36From Sourcing Engine to Agentic Commerce with Alibaba's Accio AgentSupply-chain data and agentic workflows, sourcing and SMEsAug 4, 2026
52 min - Ep. 35The Future of Agentic Payments with Clink Founder Patrick Wuagentic commerce, payment solutions, agent payments, safety guardrailsJul 28, 2026
49 min - Ep. 34Pony.ai’s Founder and CEO James Peng on What It Takes to Scale Robotaxiswhy autonomous driving took a decade to commercialize, China's cost advantage, the bottlenecks and challenges of scaling globallyJul 21, 2026
55 min
Show all 45 episodes
- Ep. 33From Beauty Apps to AI Agents: Meitu’s CFO Gary Ngan on the Future of Visual AIIn this episode, I spoke with Gary Ngan, CFO of Meitu, about how the company is evolving from its roots in consumer photo editing into a broader AI-native visual creation platform across photo, video, design, and…Jul 14, 2026
50 min - Ep. 32Paul Triolo on Chinese labs making chips, SMIC, Huawei and the importance of AI governanceHi all, we’re back with the podcast. This is the perfect time for Paul Triolo to join us as he gives us a preview of the upcoming WAIC and walks us through some of the top-of-mind questions we have about China’s AI…Jul 13, 2026
1 hr 26 min - Ep. 31Future of mobility, a deep dive into the forces driving the Chinese EV revolution with Tu LeHi all, I’m really scared to even share this episode because the last time I recorded an episode with Kyle Chan and mentioned cars, I got ripped online.Jun 17, 2026
1 hr 23 min - Ep. 30Where does Europe fit in the so-called China-US AI race?Joining me today is Alex Lu, who offers a unique perspective. Alex works at the intersection of three very different AI worlds: China, Europe, and enterprise transformation.Jun 8, 2026
1 hr 10 min - Ep. 29China’s internet ecosystem, manufacturing base, batteries, EVs, robotics, and semiconductor becoming an AI-enabled industrial systemIn this episode of Differentiated Understanding, I spoke with THE TP Huang , an independent China tech analyst known for his work on fintech, EVs, batteries, AI, semiconductors, and the broader China industrial…Jun 1, 2026
50 min - Ep. 28China's open-source ecosystem and the future of AI bootstrapping with ex-Hugging Face APAC headJoining me today is Tiezhen Wang (Tom), formerly of Hugging Face, where he worked with researchers in China, Australia, South Korea, Japan and across APAC, to help make open-source models more discoverable, usable, and…May 25, 2026
1 hr 3 min - Ep. 27Nathan Lambert Reflects on China’s AI Labs: DeepSeek, Open Models, and the 'Race' with the U.S.Joining me today is Nathan Lambert , author of Interconnects AI and a post-training lead at the Allen Institute for AI.May 20, 2026
1 hr 3 min - Ep. 26AI x education, a contentious but unavoidable future. Designing tech for children with Dex's Reni CaoI spoke with Reni Cao, the CEO and co-founder of Dex. Dex Camera is a language-learning camera for kids.May 18, 2026
1 hr 1 min - Ep. 25There's more to Korea than just chips. TheVentures CIO on the country's AI stackIn this episode, I spoke to a leading South Korea VC, TheVentures’ CIO Ethan Cho. He argues that South Korea’s low fertility rate and aging population put pressure on Korea to be one of the world’s fastest adopters of…May 11, 2026
54 min - Ep. 24Assembled co-founder John Wang on building an AI-native support system for enterprisesIn this episode, I sit down with John Wang, the co-founder of Assembled, to explore how AI is revolutionizing customer support.May 4, 2026
43 min - Ep. 23Matt Sheehan on China’s AI Policies: Employment, Anxiety, Safety, and State PrioritiesToday, I’m joined by Matt Sheehan who writes this insightful newsletter. Matt is a senior fellow in the Asia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.Apr 27, 2026
1 hr 1 min - Ep. 22Tencent's QClaw goes global, aims to serve the average consumer user, with PM Shuyu ZhangAmid Anthropic’s success with coding products, many AI labs and companies have also tried to lean into that vertical. OpenAI has stepped back from courting consumers and shut down its video model division, Sora.Apr 21, 2026
45 min - Ep. 21Sovereign AI, Open Source, and the Gulf’s Big Bet with Interconnected Kevin XuEvery panel on AI and geopolitics seems to default to the same cliché: “the US–China race.” In this episode of Differential Understanding , I wanted to sit with someone who has actually lived inside DC, Silicon Valley,…Jan 14, 2026
59 min - Ep. 20EVs taking on AI OS and the Delivery War. The Chinese Tech Winners Beyond BAT with Alan ZhangIn this episode, I sit down with Alan Zhang (Principal & Portfolio Manager at Ox Capital Management) to map China’s tech landscape through an investor’s lens.Jan 6, 2026
49 min - Ep. 19Z.ai/ Zhipu: one of the first major LLM start-ups to go public. Competition with giants and aims for AGIIn this episode, I sit down with Zixuan Li, who leads the chat API and global partnerships at Z.ai, one of China’s leading LLM labs (one of the four tigers) and now one of the first to head toward an IPO.Dec 29, 2025
51 min - Ep. 18What the U.S. Misreads About China’s Tech Rise with Kyle ChanIn this episode, I sit down with Kyle Chan (Brookings Institution) to unpack the thinking behind his provocative New York Times op-ed, “In the Future, China Will Be Dominant, the U.S.Dec 23, 2025
53 min - Ep. 17AI Governance From Brussels to Beijing: George Chen on APAC’s Different PathMost AI policy conversations still orbit around Washington and Brussels, but Asia-Pacific is already writing a very different rulebook.Dec 16, 2025
52 min - Ep. 16Why American Investors Should Have a Pulse on China with James WangIn this episode of Differentiated Understanding , I talk with James Wang , general partner at deep-tech fund Creative Ventures , author of What You Need to Know About AI: A Primer on Being Human in an Artificially…Dec 9, 2025
1 hr 6 min - Ep. 15Unlocking the Future of Startups and Super Individuals with Bei ZhangIn this episode, I speak with Bei Zhang, VP of Growth at Tanka, about the company’s mission to empower AI-native founders.Nov 26, 2025
42 min - Ep. 14From Coal to Compute: China’s Grid Meets the AI Boom with David FishmanDavid Fishman is a Principal at The Lantau Group who advises on energy development, infrastructure, and electricity markets across East Asia, with a focus on China.Nov 18, 2025
47 min - Ep. 13Is this the Cursor of China? Alibaba's Qoder team on agentic coding, Qwen, and international ambitions“So our philosophy here is to integrate the globally optimal models and give users the best results.” — Hang Yu, Head of Product at Qoder, Alibaba This is the first episode in a series of founder and builder dispatches,…Nov 10, 2025
50 min - Ep. 12E-Commerce Evolution: AI and Live Streaming in Retail, with former Alibaba executive Sharon Gai“Retail is simple. Retail is just how do you sell something, and make someone’s eye light up.Nov 4, 2025
56 min - Ep. 11The Visible Hand: China's Strategic Economic Planning with EIU Chim LeeJoining me today is Chim Lee, Senior Analyst at the Economist Intelligence Unit. He works in EIU’s China and Asia teams, and is based in the company’s Beijing and Hong Kong offices.Oct 30, 2025
48 min - Ep. 10AI Plus: Understanding the Intersection of AI and Economic GrowthIn this conversation, I spoke with Tom Nunlist from policy consultancy Trivium, about China’s AI Plus plan and its implications for the economy and society.Oct 13, 2025
49 min - Ep. 9China vs. US: Tech Optimism vs. Doomism and Education System Differences with Natalia Cote-MunozJoining me today is Natalia Cote-Munoz , a policy strategist, writer, and International Strategy Forum (ISF) Fellow— a program by Schmidt Futures that supports rising leaders at the intersection of geopolitics,…Oct 7, 2025
1 hr 1 min - Ep. 8Capital and Distribution in AI, and the Rise of Neoclouds with Kevin ZhangKevin is an investor at a family office, where he leads AI investments across asset classes.Oct 2, 2025
41 min - Ep. 7Chinese internet darlings, the decoupled VC sector, and open-source leaders, with Jing Yang, Asia Editor of The InformationIn this conversation, Jing Yang, Asia Bureau Chief of The Information, a former WSJ reporter, discusses the evolution of China's tech landscape over the past decade.Sep 29, 2025
1 hr 0 min - Ep. 6The Rapid Evolution of China's Tech Sector & an Insider Look Into the AI Startup World with Wency ChenIn this episode, Wency delves into the details of her journey, from working at a leading Chinese-language tech publication to joining an international VC firm, and now writing about China’s AI and tech ecosystem for a…Sep 25, 2025
52 min - Ep. 5Investment themes from China's internet era to AI era with Tech Buzz China Founder Rui MaFor long-term China tech investors and journalists, she needs no introduction. Rui Ma is a leading voice in the space, a trusted China internet analyst. She is the founder of TechBuzz China.Sep 23, 2025
52 min - Ep. 4Navigating the AI Revolution in Organizations with Diana Wu DavidJoining me today is Diana Wu David, Director of Futures at ServiceNow. Diana is ranked number #2 futurist in the world by Global Gurus.Sep 18, 2025
37 min - Ep. 3China’s AI and Tech Diplomacy with Professor Brian WongDr. Brian Wong is a HKU-100 Assistant Professor in Philosophy at the University of Hong Kong.Sep 16, 2025
1 hr 5 min - Ep. 2China's Supply Chain Advantages' Impact on its AI and Tech Development with Cameron JohnsonToday we speak to Cameron Johnson, who delves into the complexities of global supply chains, particularly focusing on the dynamics between the US and China.Sep 11, 2025
42 min - Ep. 1China vs. Silicon Valley: AI & Tech Culture with Jasmine SunWelcome to the first episode of Differentiated Understanding . Today we speak to Jasmine Sun , and we dive into everything from her recent trip to China, covering China as an ABC, how the capital in China vs.Sep 9, 2025
1 hr 13 min
Guests
46 voices and counting
2026
- Serrino LiuAI Product Expert, Miora (Tencent)How the creative industry is adopting AI
- Kristy LokeAI governance researcherUS–China AI cooperation after the Trump–Xi meeting
- Aoni WangProduct designer, HarveyHow AI is changing product and design
- Yiyang HibnerProduct manager, AirbnbHow AI is changing product and design
- Ang LiCo-founder & CEO, Simular AI (ex-DeepMind)Computer-use agents and token economics
- Jing Yang & Juro OsawaThe InformationDeepSeek’s fundraising and China’s A-share market
- Robin ZhuBernsteinThe economics of China’s AI labs
- Bei ShenCFO, Manycore TechFrom 3D design software to spatial intelligence
- Robert WuFounder & CEO, BaiguanHow China’s pragmatism shapes AI and capital
- Christian HuQoder (Alibaba)Returning guest: China’s workplace agent war
- Ziwei ChenAccio Work, Alibaba.comAgentic commerce for small businesses
- Patrick WuFounder & CEO, ClinkThe future of agentic payments
- James PengFounder & CEO, Pony.aiWhat it takes to scale robotaxis
- Gary NganCFO, MeituFrom beauty apps to AI agents
- Paul TrioloPartner, DGA-Albright Stonebridge GroupChips, Huawei, and AI governance
- Tu LeFounder, Sino Auto InsightsThe forces driving China’s EV revolution
- Alex LuEnterprise AI advisor in EuropeWhere Europe fits in the AI race
- TP HuangIndependent China tech analystChina’s AI-enabled industrial system
- Tiezhen WangFormer APAC lead, Hugging FaceChina’s open-source AI ecosystem
- Nathan LambertAllen Institute for AI · InterconnectsInside China’s AI labs
- Reni CaoCo-founder & CEO, DexDesigning technology for children
- Ethan ChoCIO & Partner, TheVenturesSouth Korea’s AI stack
- John WangCo-founder, Assembled (ex-Stripe)AI-native customer support
- Matt SheehanSenior Fellow, Carnegie EndowmentChina’s AI policy and job-loss anxiety
- Shuyu ZhangSenior PM, Tencent QClawTencent’s QClaw goes global
- Kevin XuFounder, InterconnectedSovereign AI, open source, and the Gulf
- Alan ZhangPortfolio Manager, Ox CapitalChina’s tech winners beyond BAT
2025
- Zixuan LiGLM lead, Z.aiOne of China’s first LLM labs to go public
- Kyle ChanSenior Fellow, BrookingsWhat the U.S. misreads about China’s tech rise
- George ChenDigital Partner, The Asia GroupAPAC’s path on AI governance
- James WangGeneral Partner, Creative VenturesWhy U.S. investors should watch China
- Bei ZhangVP of Growth, TankaAI-native startups and super individuals
- David FishmanPrincipal, The Lantau GroupChina’s grid meets the AI boom
- Hang Yu & Christian HuQoder (Alibaba)Building China’s Cursor
- Sharon GaiFormer Alibaba executiveAI and live-stream retail
- Chim LeeSenior Analyst, EIUChina’s strategic economic planning
- Tom NunlistAssociate Director, TriviumChina’s AI Plus plan
- Natalia Cote-MunozFormer Biden administration advisorTech optimism in China and the U.S.
- Kevin ZhangAI investorCapital, distribution, and neoclouds
- Jing YangAsia Bureau Chief, The InformationChina’s internet darlings and VC
- Wency ChenAI reporter, SCMPInside China’s AI startup world
- Rui MaFounder, Tech Buzz ChinaInvesting from China’s internet era to AI
- Diana Wu DavidDirector of Futures, ServiceNowAI in organizations
- Brian WongAssistant Professor, HKUChina’s AI and tech diplomacy
- Cameron JohnsonSupply chain expertChina’s supply chain advantage
- Jasmine SunAI anthropologistChina vs. Silicon Valley tech culture
Have a guest or topic in mind?
Grace looks for people with a genuinely differentiated view on AI, technology, and business across borders.